Very thought provoking! I wonder if there are any other cultures that have the same phenomenon of young people who know how to read the text without understanding the words
I would imagine that among Muslims there is a similar phenomenon as reading scripture is a value in and of itself in Islam. They have a similar notions of being “rewarded for every letter” they read. Interestingly, Arabic is closely related to Hebrew, and has similarly puzzled linguists as to its tightly knit semantic structure.
As if reading Hebrew was mystically normal without understanding. The
challenge is not just understanding Hebrew like some formula but actually living it like all languages in their natural place. Living and speaking Hebrew in Israel where one should naturally be.Your home country where you belong.If not your just on liife support . This discussion then is somewhat pathetic,unreal,and doesn't take into account the right direction to take ,home to Israel.
I agree that language should be alive and organic — not merely a computational formula, but although spoken language is acquired by virtually all human beings through exposure and immersion, reading and writing is acquired through formal instruction for nearly all humans. For Jews in Diaspora — especially the goals of inspiring lifelong Torah learning and meaningful Torah education that leads to meaningful Jewish civic engagement and Aliya — I believe demands formal education and proper Hebrew education as a means a to get there.
When you say this “isn’t true,” do you mean you disagree with the conclusion of the Shulchan Aruch in O”C 62:2? It is based on the majority opinion of the Sages as recorded in Berachot 13a, (although Rebbi Yehudah the Prince dissented and agreed with you).
I agree that it isn’t obvious at all that it should be the case that reading in translation should be allowed, especially seeing as Hebrew isn’t translatable into another language without losing a great deal of the meaning (which is my point in this series).
Although the distinction between “listen” and “hear” is as you put it, I don’t agree that שמע means “active listening” specifically. If it would, how would one say “hear” in Hebrew?
Shulchan Aruch rules that a person can recite the Shema in any language that he understands. The Talmud derives this allowance from the Shema itself, since the word “Shema-שמע” simultaneously means “hear” and “comprehend,” meaning that one is meant to understand what he is saying.
This is not true.
SHEMA means "listen" not 'hear'
the difference is that to "hear" is an involuntary function of a person with normal hearing
to "listen" requires focus, and signifies that the audio signal has importance above the general auditory inputs in the environment
one can stand in a crowd and hear the crowd, but to hear one specific person, one must listen
moreover, the Torah encourages active listening, the asking of questions
this led to the initiation of the oral Torah as people came to ask Moshe questions and he could not service their needs alone, so he created a body of educators
the problem of listening to Torah in a language other than Hebrew is that Torah cannot be translated
It is intended to be listened to in Hebrew or Aramaic, but not any other language
another language may be a 'stepping-stone' to Hebrew comprehension, but it is not a listening language
Very thought provoking! I wonder if there are any other cultures that have the same phenomenon of young people who know how to read the text without understanding the words
I would imagine that among Muslims there is a similar phenomenon as reading scripture is a value in and of itself in Islam. They have a similar notions of being “rewarded for every letter” they read. Interestingly, Arabic is closely related to Hebrew, and has similarly puzzled linguists as to its tightly knit semantic structure.
As if reading Hebrew was mystically normal without understanding. The
challenge is not just understanding Hebrew like some formula but actually living it like all languages in their natural place. Living and speaking Hebrew in Israel where one should naturally be.Your home country where you belong.If not your just on liife support . This discussion then is somewhat pathetic,unreal,and doesn't take into account the right direction to take ,home to Israel.
I agree that language should be alive and organic — not merely a computational formula, but although spoken language is acquired by virtually all human beings through exposure and immersion, reading and writing is acquired through formal instruction for nearly all humans. For Jews in Diaspora — especially the goals of inspiring lifelong Torah learning and meaningful Torah education that leads to meaningful Jewish civic engagement and Aliya — I believe demands formal education and proper Hebrew education as a means a to get there.
When you say this “isn’t true,” do you mean you disagree with the conclusion of the Shulchan Aruch in O”C 62:2? It is based on the majority opinion of the Sages as recorded in Berachot 13a, (although Rebbi Yehudah the Prince dissented and agreed with you).
I agree that it isn’t obvious at all that it should be the case that reading in translation should be allowed, especially seeing as Hebrew isn’t translatable into another language without losing a great deal of the meaning (which is my point in this series).
Although the distinction between “listen” and “hear” is as you put it, I don’t agree that שמע means “active listening” specifically. If it would, how would one say “hear” in Hebrew?
Thank you for starting this series.
Shulchan Aruch rules that a person can recite the Shema in any language that he understands. The Talmud derives this allowance from the Shema itself, since the word “Shema-שמע” simultaneously means “hear” and “comprehend,” meaning that one is meant to understand what he is saying.
This is not true.
SHEMA means "listen" not 'hear'
the difference is that to "hear" is an involuntary function of a person with normal hearing
to "listen" requires focus, and signifies that the audio signal has importance above the general auditory inputs in the environment
one can stand in a crowd and hear the crowd, but to hear one specific person, one must listen
moreover, the Torah encourages active listening, the asking of questions
this led to the initiation of the oral Torah as people came to ask Moshe questions and he could not service their needs alone, so he created a body of educators
the problem of listening to Torah in a language other than Hebrew is that Torah cannot be translated
It is intended to be listened to in Hebrew or Aramaic, but not any other language
another language may be a 'stepping-stone' to Hebrew comprehension, but it is not a listening language